In November 2019 as bushfires ravaged Australia's east coast, Ed Roy and his wife Cheryl Laffernis were at their five-acre home surrounded by bush, watching nervously as the blaze approached.
The ferocious fire had already crossed containment lines close by at Bobin near Taree, on the NSW mid-north coast, and was gaining momentum.
Ed and Cheryl were sitting glued to their Fires Near Me app when they received a call from neighbours.
“They said, 'the fire’s here, it’s crossed the creek, get out'," Cheryl told Insight.
The pair left their home with nothing and spent the night in a freezing local hall that had become an evacuation centre for nearby residents.
At 5am, as soon as there was light in the sky, they went to see if their home was still there.
“As we turned onto our road, people were saying 'you can’t go, you can’t get in there'," Cheryl said.
“But we were just so relieved to see our house was still standing. And then we looked at each other and said ‘Okay, let’s stay, it’s all safe'."
In November 2019 bushfires devastated the tiny town of Bobin on the mid-north coast of NSW. Source: Supplied / 7 News
'I don't know what we were thinking'
“At that point, we thought that most of the big fire front had actually passed us, but the advice coming out of Sydney was that it’s not safe, that there’s still fuel on the ground and it’s still dangerous," Ed said.
They decided to ignore the official advice and stay put, a decision they would later regret.
“That night we saw the fire take hold one more time, across the ridge. We were watching this fire come through and we were trying to put it out with a garden hose. I don’t know what we were thinking," Ed said.
“I don’t mean to trivialise war zones, but to some extent you have control in a war zone. You’re there to cover something, and to some extent you know where the front is. But with a bushfire you’ve got family with you, and a home, and it’s a completely different dynamic. The so-called enemy is something you have no control over," he told Insight.
Edmond Roy and Cheryl Laffernis say staying put to defend their home against a raging bushfire, against official advice, was the stupidest thing they could have done. Source: SBS
“Things could have gone pear-shaped. They didn’t, so we are here to talk about it, " he said.
"But I have regrets, yes. And Cheryl still has PTSD.
"She still can’t smell smoke without going back to that time."
When advice is the threat
Philosopher Tim Dean says we can sometimes dig our heels in if we hear advice that goes against to what we believe.
“This can cause us to get locked into this defensive kind of war mindset, which American author Julia Galef calls the 'Soldier Mindset'.
"We stand fast, we defend ourselves and we fight to defend our identity and our chosen course of action," he said.
I have regrets, yes.Edmond Roy
Another kind of mindset, which Galef calls the 'Scout Mindset', can be a better option, he suggests.
"This is the idea that instead of seeing something or someone as an opponent challenging what we believe, we can see both of us on the same side, exploring a territory together.
"We can then start co-operating … to get to the bottom of what’s actually happening."
'I'm a bit allergic to advice'
Gina Chick was over the moon to find out she was pregnant at 40, but four days later the bubble burst when she learned she had breast cancer.
The doctor told her that pregnancy hormones feed the cancer and advised her to terminate or she would die.
“I’m a bit allergic to advice. I thought I’ll do alternative therapies … I’ll get through it somehow," she told Insight.
Lee Trew, the baby’s father and Gina’s partner at the time, was relieved Gina seemed to know what to do.
But the tumour cells continued to skyrocket, which led Gina to research studies of women who had gone through chemo while pregnant.
"To make sure I didn’t leave Lee to bring up our daughter on his own, I decided to say yes to chemo," she said.
Gina Chick was advised to get an abortion in order to prevent her cancer spreading and save her life. Source: Supplied
But when Blaise was three, Gina felt a lump in her daughter’s stomach.
“It was a neuroblastoma. It was removed. Ten weeks later she died. Lee and I were both with her, holding her body, when she flew away."
Gina Chick wanted to avoid chemotherapy while pregnant but after doing her research, found three agents she was willing to take. Source: Supplied
Living with our decisions
Gina says she has never second-guessed her decisions based on the advice she was given.
“I brought Blaise into the world healthy. And for the three years we had her, I wouldn’t trade one second.
Gina says she will never know if the chemo triggered Blaise's cancer, though the doctors said there was no evidence of that.
"There’s no merit for me in asking over and over, 'what if' or 'if only'. I’d rather make my decisions and live with the consequences and learn from them.
"When it comes to the crunch. I can trust that instinctive voice, and choose the right path," Gina said.
Ed, meanwhile, still regrets ignoring advice from the authorities to leave his property.
“In hindsight, wilfully ignoring advice that people far cleverer than you with far more resources have come up with is stupid," he said.
"I have no qualms about saying that."
In fact, the incident has made him understand the importance of advice in critical situations.
"My advice to someone in the path of a bushfire is to get the hell out, if you can."
Ed Roy works at SBS News on a casual basis.
